Living Sober

[Ken1]

Living Sober (or OK I'm Sober, Now What?)

I wanted to start a thread dedicated to all those who are sober. I mean full time sober, not relapsing, trying to gain footing, or still drinking occasionally.

I have not been posting as much in the main thread as it tends to give me an excuse to justify contemplating relapsing when I see others doing it, you know the old "it's not fair" thing. I don't feel like that is where I belong at this time and can't find a thread that fits exactly what I need.

I need a safe place to talk to other sober people, white knuckling, struggling, having a completely easy time or otherwise, just not constantly relapsing. It is just too much of a trigger for me to be in the middle of that.

The last thing I want to do is offend anyone, and starting this thread has nothing to do with anyone other than myself and my hang-ups, so please don't be offended. Simply come back when you are on steady ground.

Some things I thought would be a good place to start the thread are:

what you are doing to maintain sobriety
the challenges of being sober
how you are doing
anything else you want to talk about


I sincerely hope to generate some great information from all the wise people here to pass along to each other and anyone trying to make it.

[carol]

Ken, thanks.

I'm enjoying being free! I recently posted what's going on with me on the "60, 90, days...now what" thread so won't repeat it here.

I am uncomfortable with the term "sober". I ran across the idea of defining a "sober day" but changed it to "freedom day" for myself. For me it really is about freedom, not being enslaved! And I love it.

I looked up the definition of sober to help me figure out why I'm uncomfortable. (Oh, did I mention that I overthink and overdo?? Yep, that's me, so bear with me or just skip the post.)

Sober:
1. not intoxicated or drunk. OK, I'm good with that!
2. habitually temperate, especially in the use of liquor. OK, I can live with that
3. quiet or sedate in demeanor, as persons. here's where I start to have a problem with the term, although I actually do fit this usually
4. marked by seriousness, gravity, solemnity, etc., as of demeanor, speech, etc.: a sober occasion. Aha, this is my issue with "sober"! No, it ain't about being serious and not having any fun any more!!
5. subdued in tone, as color; not gay or showy, as clothes. Subdued & not gay, I beg to differ! The joy I feel from freedom from drinking is colorful and showy and gay and wonderful and all not-sober!

So, no, I'm not sober!!! I'm a non-drinker (of alcohol, as some have pointed out that I do in fact drink in order to live, just not alcohol), but I'm joyous and not serious and not solemn and not subdued!

Anyway, I had to get that out of my system. I do like what Vic coined as the "sober train" and love that there are so many of us on it.

I also like the 60 day + thread and know some people have made it a goal to be able to post there (60 days, I'm here, woo hoo!) But whether it's there or here or both, I think it's good to have a place for dialog when we've achieved some degree of sobriety. My life isn't all happiness and joy, but it sure is a whole lot better than when I was drinking!!

Sober train, chugga-chugga-chugga-choo-choo!

[Ken1]

Carol,

You may be over thinking it but do whatever works for you. As for me sober works just fine and I embrace it! For me, over thinking things is one of the many reasons I drank, couldn't quiet the mind. I have discovered that I am also a recovering know-it-all, and it is very freeing to let that all go. Now that I realize that I don't have it all figured out, it is a much more pleasant way to live. I read that it is good to be open to new things, childlike in our curiosity and desire to learn. So anyway, learning to surrender to the fact that I have a lot to learn has been a big key to my sobriety and has brought with it the bonus of helping to quiet down my racing thoughts. I can now say "I don't know" about things and that's the end of it!

[Midwest Sue]

Wow Ken,
I am so happy you started this thread. I have also felt uncomfortable watching the struggles of those who have been unable to achieve a long and consistent level of sobriety. My discomfort comes not from judging but from:
1. Remembering when I was there. Painful.
2. Wanting to reach out and give them the peace of mind I've achieved and I can't! Frustrating.
3. Wondering if it's normal to continually relapse, and if so... could I do it and start over? Or do moderation?

Carol, I feel the same way about the word sober. A couple of years ago I quit drinking for 30 days and wrote a daily private blog that I called "Sober". It didn't take me long to decide to change the name to "Serene", for exactly the reasons you gave! Sober sounded depressing.

While I wish that I had stayed on the sober train in 2009, I am happy to be back on now and back to Serene. Back then I fell victim to the 30-day "See? I can quit if I want to!" self-delusion.

So now I'm wiser. I know which traps will trip me up.

Ken, I love the recovering know-it-all moniker! I feel exactly the same way. Indeed, it's "what you learn after you know it all that counts"!

Time for some iced tea with a splash of cranberry. Toodle Pip!

[Paul]

Hi Ken
I have so much to thank this site for as without it I would probably be drinking right now, the people, thier honesty, openness and advice has been fantastic and a real help, I have not had alcohol for the last 30 + days now and feel great, I have had various attempts in the past (pre spiritual river) that failed but i'm happy to say that since joining the site I have managed my current sobriety on the first attempt, that said for me personally I probably wasn't 100% committed to totally quitting in the past, I think I always thought I would just try to controll it, have a week or two not drinking and then start again in moderation but of course that only lasted a couple of days at most, I think I am where I am now and haven't relapsed because I truly realised that just one drink could never happen for me, one drink was just the fuse! I think everyone's journey is similar in many ways but also I think there is a lot that only you have the answers too, I read the main posts everyday but feel that i would gain from a thread such as this.
Anyway as a starting point in answer to your suggested questions..

Whenever i feel like i might want a drink I remind myself why I searched for this site in the first place and put myself in that state of mind, it really does work for me and maybe I was just in a really dark place but I know I never want to return
I think about it less than I did but there are a few things that i struggle with..
1. My partner drinks (once or twice a week and only a couple) it's not too much of a problem and she wouldn't have one if I said somthing but I really don't want to as I want to feel more secure in myself around alcohol
2. Social occasions, I went out this weekend with a few friends everyone drank apart from me and although I wasn't tempted nor desired a drink I felt slightly uncomfortable the more they had to drink as they all seemed to be on a different page to me, that said when I looked at the ones who had drank too much I did feel I was having a far better time

I focus a lot more on myself now that I'm not drinking, my health, my appearance, I plan more I set goals, but
Life does go on regardless and bad days happen all I know is when they do it's a lot easier to deal with them sober !
Anyway off to bed now (uk)
And sorry for poor editing (on my iPhone)
Hope to read lots of postings here soon !

[Beth]

Love being on the sober train with all you damn lovely people!
My take on being sober is not a number (days). I do believe you should count the first 30 days but for me, after that I just count that I am sober today and was sober yesterday. I am living sober.

I went to a dinner party tonight and all the nice gentlemen offered to get me a drink when I arrived. I had planned to beeline to the bar when I got there so I could order my disguised drink. So I was caught a little off guard. But not to worry, I said "I'll have a glass of cranberry juice". No problem. I opted for a one ingredient drink so it didn't look like I was trying to hard to avoid the alcohol (just something that went through my mind). I planned it so I would get there at the end of the cocktail hour which I timed perfectly.

It was a quick dinner but I enjoyed it as a trial party run. I did notice the massive amount of empty beer bottles that were on the tables as everyone left. Something that struck me as stupid......it's a Monday night people! Not judging just observing;).

[Ken1]

Paul, welcome and congratulations on 30+ days, that is no small feat. I like your insights into not trying to make the world change around you. We are constantly bombarded daily by alcohol everywhere, in commercials with all the beautiful people living perfect lives because of their brand of beer, billboards, magazines, movies, and on and on. We are the ones that have to find our way through this and it is unrealistic to think you can avoid it and still go out in public and have a career. The longer I go not drinking, the less I am tempted, especially to be around people drinking heavily. I think, was I like that, knowing that I was because they were my former drinking buddies and I would have been matching them drink for drink. As Patrick said in one of his articles, I can't believe how long I continued to drink even after it had stopped being fun.

I also agree with you in feeling very fortunate to have found Spiritual River. In my early days of trying to quit on my own, I experienced little success and it was always short lived. It finally occurred to me that what I was doing was not working and that I needed help. Once again quoting Patrick, it wasn't until I fully surrendered to the fact that alcohol was controlling my life that I was ready to make the change. I went to AA, which I give full credit for changing and saving my life. I was powerless to change, as evidenced by my constant relapsing. Once I admitted that and fully committed to the program, I was on my way. Now this forum is my daily AA meeting and keeps me grounded.

I also believe that there is no one size fits all approach. Eric reminded me that if you fully commit to any recovery program it will work, you just need to find the approach that fits for you.

Isn't it strange that the very thing we were using to deal with stress, when we put it aside we learn was the cause of most of the stress. The stress seems to decrease dramatically and problems easier to solve once we make the decision to get alcohol out of our lives. Anyway, welcome to the family Paul and I look forward to hearing more from you. Feel free to post in any thread that speaks to you, you will find a lot of very supportive and wise people here that have taught me so much.

Beth, you are truly making a leap forward by ordering a non-alcoholic drink while everyone is drinking. It, as you know, is one of the things that almost every person that joins asks about, the dreaded first party facing all your peers and not drinking! Not to make light of it, it really is a lot of pressure early on. I know you are moths past that, but it can still make your blood pressure go up so good for you.

Sue, I am so glad you posted and agree with you totally. My heart goes out to those that are struggling but sometimes it causes me to doubt my resolve. Not judging, been there done that. I think relapsing is normal early on, but Patrick instructs adopting a zero tolerance policy and I constantly remind myself of his words. I learn a lot from your posts and know you are very empathetic to the struggles of others. I think it is important to continue to post in the other threads, to keep grounded and realize that we were there not long ago and to continue to support all of the members here. Sometimes I read or hear something that I need to post in the main thread and I always feel compelled to welcome new posters, so I plan on continuing to read and post all over, I just wanted a place to learn from others that are where we are. I mean the Ok, I'm sober, now what the heck am I supposed to do? All the learning and reading I've done was on how and why to quit, not on staying sober or how to live sober, so thus this thread.

Have a great morning everyone!

[kevin2]

I was just reading through this thread,..and just a quick reaction would be to be careful in a way, because lots of us (constant relapsers) who post in the main thread will probably also read this thread. Phrases like "making you uncomfortable" posting and/or reading in the main thread, might serve to do the opposite of what this wonderful site is intended for,..helping struggling addicts find support when they don't know where else to turn (at least that's my interpretation anyway).

I need a safe place to talk to other sober people, white knuckling, struggling, having a completely easy time or otherwise, just not constantly relapsing. It is just too much of a trigger for me to be in the middle of that.

I guess I'm a little surprised to read something like that Ken,..but whatever works or doesn't work for you I suppose. I just see the 60, 90 days...now what? thread as kinda serving the same purpose and doesn't seem to alienate any of the newcomers,..or the cereal relapsers,..just a fun goal to work toward to post there. I just wanted to give my initial reaction,..please don't take it the wrong way, because I don't think the tone of this thread (somewhat snotty) is the intent. I'm on day 38 now,..which is nothing in the grand scheme of things, so Carol, Sue, Christy and any of the others that have hit the 1 year mark etc. congratulations you have my respect. We're all just one mistake or one letting down of the guard away from our own day 1 so...

[Eric]

I thought about this new thread and actually very much liked the idea. I thought that if there was an actual block to posting until you have acquired some sobriety that would also be a good idea. Patrick's articles talk about an indication of likely failure as being overly confident with new sobriety, proclaiming that "I have finally figured it out" at 3 days sober, or advising others before you actually get it. I am all for having a forum where new people can voice their struggles and relapses. But, I would also appreciate a place where I actually have to put together some sobriety before I am eligible to participate. I need to be reminded that I do not know what I am talking about and I need to listen to what other people have to say and DO those things. Of course, being reminded of the struggles that people have in seeking sobriety is valuable too, but I think it is important for an online forum to also distinguish those who are successful as a beacon to others.

[kevin2]

That's an interesting thought Eric,..and I definitly get your point. I'm not trying to stir anything up by questioning this thread,..and it's not the concept of the thread that bothered me,..just the tone I guess you'ld say. I may have been better served just not mentioning it,..but I can also see it leading to some interesting conversation at least. I have had similar thoughts and reservations about posting on this board (like Ken),..because of not neccessarily feeling qualified or like a hypocrite due to relapsing a few times. It's all free speech anyway,..so who am I to question what anyone types on this board or what threads are started.

[Ken1]

Kevin, your post is why I included this statement in the opening post, which is the next paragraph after the one you quoted:

"The last thing I want to do is offend anyone, and starting this thread has nothing to do with anyone other than myself and my hang-ups, so please don't be offended. Simply come back when you are on steady ground."

Also, I did not use the phrase "making you feel uncomfortable posting at the main thread." I did say "it tends to give me an excuse to justify contemplating relapsing when I see others doing it." There is a big difference there to me.

I was not trying to hurt anyone's feelings. I hoped people would understand that this site is all about support and that some people are at different levels of progress in their battle with alcoholism. Not better than anyone else or above, just at a point where different needs are trying to be fulfilled as they arise. I am not trying to be controversial and am surprised at the reaction. I did not feel that the 60/90 day thread dealt with what I am searching for, which is how to live a fulfilling life, to continue to grow as a person, and to continue to contribute here and connect with people that are succeeding and to those that are struggling.

I sincerely apologize if this thread has hurt anyone's feelings or made them to feel less than. I promise you it is my wish from the deepest part of my soul that everyone finds what they need here, whether that be a hand up on day 1 or a reason to go on after year 1. I pray that everyone here is able to find whatever tools or methods work for them to live a life of joy and fulfillment that they deserve.

[Ken1]

Once again, I was not trying to upset anyone, just trying to learn. God Bless.

[carol]

Free speech with respect and safety has been the key aspect of this forum, along with openness to many ways of getting to the desired outcome of not drinking. Our community posts here, some go to AA some don't, some go to church some don't, some are Buddhist some aren't, some take meds to help some don't, some read books others don't. I think we all read Patrick's articles and resonate with his spiritual recovery approach. The only thing that's not OK is treating each other with disrespect or making this an unsafe place to be.

I don't find that this thread violates that boundary. Patrick talks about what gets us sober doesn't keep us sober, what works in early sobriety has to change to keep us sober longterm. This is a place to talk about that, so is the 60 day + thread. So what? There's the main thread and a Getting Started thread and a thread for getting sober with God which was started to make people comfortable with the main thread being spiritual but not religious but people needing a safe place to post religious thoughts 'cause that's what they needed to get sober. There are lots of threads. I think I posted on 4 of them yesterday.

I love the main thread. It is a key part of how I got and stay free, and I want it to keep going no matter what! I will keep posting there and offering support and trying to help. But there are things I won't post there because I don't think it's appropriate. I well remember the pain of stopping and white-knuckling and the last thing I needed was some "saint" posting about some little trivial thing when I was practically dying. So there are thing i don't post there because I don't want to come across like that person. The main thread is about getting sober and early sobriety, and per Patrick's article "early" can be measured in months or years, depending on the person. Then we need different strategies for long term sobriety.

Deep breath. The way threads and posts work here is if they are truly out of line, offensive, hurtful, disrespectful, and make people unsafe, they are taken down. Rarely happens, thank goodness. Otherwise they're there and people either read them or don't, post or don't. I like what John said, if it's something that works for us guys so much the better.

It's not trying to sound or be holier than thou or putting anyone down. "Tone" is really hard to do electronically.

Patrick said it, the strategies for long term sobriety are different. It's not meant to be hurtful.

Kimber and Kevin, I want the world for you, I want freedom for you. I'll keep reading and rooting for you, and John, and Eric, and everyone on the main thread. I want to ask something of you though, which is also to respect Ken and me and the others who have posted here because our needs are a little different now. There are things we just won't post on the main thread out of respect for you and where you are right now in your recovery. We can be silent, of course. Yes, we can post on the 60, 90 days now what thread, and I did that, too. But I'd prefer to leave this thread open and like the many many threads that have been started, either it will gain traction or it won't get used as much, but it will be there for people to read. Can I count on your openness and understanding?

I know I'm making it practically impossible for you to say no, so please send me a PM instead if you don't want to publicly disagree. Really though if the existence of this thread chases people away the forum and interferes with sobriety, we'll take it down in a heartbeat!

What do you think?

[carol]

Kimber, thanks so much! You posted while I was writing. I appreciate your support!!! And like I said on the main thread, I'm proud of you!

[kevin2]

Ken,..the phrase I used about being "uncomfortable reading about..." was from Sue (whom I love and respect),..sorry, I didn't mean to direct that towards you,...and it wasn't that I was offended by the thread at all,..but I know what my initial reaction was when I read the first few posts and it was more one of confusion just because of what I know of you and Sue,..and I was afraid that this thread wouldn't come across the way you intended. As I said before,..I'd probably have been better off just keeping quiet and moving on. I apologize if this turns this thread "controversial",..I doubt it will, no need for that. It might add some decent conversation to what's been a pretty slow board lately. So what does constitute "success" in this fight?..What constitutes "failure"? Are there different degrees of success? If you are successful, what do you win?..What's next?..Then what?

You can shut this thread down if you like,..or not, or start another one, it's up to you of course. Again, I apologize for the misunderstanding or any misinterpretation on my part.

(editing)

It might add some decent conversation to what's been a pretty slow board lately.

See, I told you. Four great posts just in the time I wrote this. Thanks Carol,..I appreciate your post and hope you get where I was coming from.

[Ken1]

John, that's funny, they are the reason I started the "Getting Started" thread in an effort to diffuse that dust up.

Kevin, I hold you in the highest regard and always respect what you think. I love being a member here and would never intentionally cause anyone distress. My thought process in starting it was this; just as you progress from one grade to the next in school, I was just trying to find out if anyone shared what I was going through at what I felt was the next level. I know I don't have it all figured out and was just seeing if anyone else was struggling with the same issues I currently am, that's it.

Kimber, I think we started initially posting about the same time and know how hard your life has been the past year or so. You have nothing to be ashamed about, you and I have a disease called alcoholism! I did not believe that for a long time, as I was raised to believe that alcoholics were either morally weak or lazy or mentally weak, but that is not what I believe anymore. I tried for years on my own to stop drinking and could not. One day, I got down on my knees and begged God to help me, and the answer I got (not out loud but deep in my heart) was go to AA. It is the only thing that worked for me, and now SR is my daily AA meeting. I thought I had it all figured out, but relapsed after four years sober. I am fighting hard to keep on the "sober train" because if I relapsed again I don't think I would have the strength for another recovery. Maybe God would have pity on me and help me again, but this last time nearly did me in! Thank you or reaching out and I will definitely see you in the other threads, thanks for the invitation!

Hope you all are having a good afternoon!

[Eric]

Carol, I am a bit surprised to be called out to show respect, openness and understanding. I think my post was quite supportive of this thread. If, however, I have shown differently, I am always happy to learn.

[carol]

Oh, Eric you are WONDERFUL and your post likewise and so supportive! Please forgive me for not mentioning that in my earlier post. You have always been gentle and respectful and a valued member of this forum. You are the one who taught me how to set up my freedom day. Please forgive me, I meant no offense. I look forward to your posts, please keep them coming!

[Eric]

Carol, no problem at all. I am always worried when my gift for saying things wrong may surface. Glad to know it didn't!

[Beth]

There's a recovery process that says once you commit to be a nondrinker you don't count the days because you are not drinking anymore ...rational recovery. I like the rational side of that but didn't succeed because I needed more than just saying it. SR gives the support I need. It's more than just one way of thinking. And that is why I am here. So grateful.

I do get where you are coming from Ken in starting this post and it would be a shame not to continue this thread.

I didn't feel like I was graduating to this thread at all and that is what made me post here yesterday. I saw it more as having traction and now needing what Patrick described as living sober.

I love our little group but also thought that the title Living Sober could eventually attract people that are living sober and could contribute as well. Like AA online I suppose. Days of not drinking are important .... I am sober today and I was sober yesterday. But Living those days are important too. I am still taking baby steps into the real world and love that when I need (desperately) advice I have I can come and get it.

[Beth]

No challenges today. Worked too hard but am now happy, safe and sober at home. I ate a good meal. I have a list of things I could do tonight but I am not only mentally tired but physically tired.... My feet are killing me. So I am silencing the mind noise and putting my feet up. No temptation to drink or have too many sweets to kill the urge. Yeah me!

[Noel]

Hi All,
I tread lightly because I am not yet deserving of being on this thread, and I truly don't mean that sarcastically. The wonderful people on this forum who have made it 3 months, 6 months, 9 months, a year, or years deserve what they need emotionally to keep going.... just as those of us who are newly sober need other things. By the way, all always find inspiration here.

The one thing I would like to say is unfortunatley electronic communication is a blessing AND a curse. Unfortunately electronic messaging lacks the benefit of facial expressions, tone, the speed of the voice, the pitch of the voice, ect....all the non-verbals that give a better meaning to the plain written word.

I must admit my FIRST reaction to this thread was "ouch"....maybe I don't belong at this site at all. BUT that was my emotions giving a knee-jerk reaction. That is why I have waited sereral hours before opening my mouth.

Carol, I so agree...some people are spiritual, some are not, some are older, some are younger, some have been struggling for a short time and others longer, some are on different levels of their alcoholism and recovery.

Ken, you were expressing a need and I appreciate that you wanted to express that need and reached out.

My hope for all of us is that we reach out for what we need to continue to keep on keeping on!! Bless us all, in what ever stage, because I know how hard it was for me to look in the mirror and say, "I need help!"

[Noel]

Beth, I guess that means you ran/walked today?!! :) I don't know about you, but my dogs has caught onto this whole walk every morning thing. She sees me getting my tennis shoes and starts to wimper and wag her "nub"....boxer

[Beth]

Noel, yes I did! But I have to tell you after the walk I started trying to figure out how many days we had left;). But I think you're right, my dog is getting use to this too. So hopefully I can continue after the first seven days as long as the weather is nice.
Set the alarm for tomorrow!

[Ken1]

I would like to apologize once again to anyone that was offended by this thread. I assure you it was not my intent to be hurtful to anyone or to be controversial. I planned on closing this thread after learning that it was considered divisive. We all learn from the mistakes we make and I have learned that the best of intentions can have unintended consequences. My only intention is the quest for knowledge and camaraderie.

I did close it, but have decided to re-open it due to the feedback I received after doing so. I still think it can be a place for everyone to share what helped get them on the road to long term sobriety and how they are maintaining sobriety. It is my sincere hope that we all make it to this stage and continue to extend a helping hand to all those just getting started and to those still struggling.

Good luck to all on your own personal quests for healing and knowledge, I hope you find what you are searching for!

[Ken1]

Thread re-opened!

[Noel]

Ken and all that need this thread...Great!! Sometimes I am such a "people pleaser" that I let my needs fall a little short. Ken, you didn't let your needs go so I say bravo!! I think of the Rolling Stones song, "You can't always get what you want, you get what you need." You and many others NEED this thread so I hate that my first reaction was not as positive, but I say "hell, yeah, get what you need!"

Great day to all...off to pick up my son from a party, out to dinner with my family, a family (and dog) walk, and a competitive card game with my hubby!! :)

[Beth]

Ken,
Thanks for keeping this thread. Hope you are well and second Noel's Bravo!
Was on the road all day for work which is not my favorite thing. A couple of times I thought about coming home and having a beer or two. It was weird. It wasn't an urge but more a habit thought. Like after along week, weekends here let's have a beer! There was no reason to act on it, like I said wasn't an urge. But as I thought more about it, I started to think wow have I matured. It felt good..... I've out grown alcohol. I know that sounds a little silly because at any age we can become an alcoholic and at any age we can stop drinking. But just another little thing for my arsenal. I can use it as a choice saying for when I may be pressured by someone to drink. So many of my friends and family have seen me act like a drunk idiot that I think that is a simple statement I can use.

[Midwest Sue]

Beth, I like the idea that we've outgrown alcohol. It's a great way to describe it without unnecessary drama.
Today I recounted to a couple of coworkers last night's uncomfortable work/social event and found myself saying, "it would have been easier if I were a drinker, but I'm not". Just like that, I described myself as "not a drinker". It felt natural and not a prelude to any sort of explanation. Almost like "I'm not much of a drinker". No questions about why I don't drink or how long since I had a drink or whether I will ever drink.

I also had my annual physical today and was able to truthfully answer their standard question about whether I use alcohol with a flat-out "no". Such a small thing but it felt really good. I am having bloodwork done which I've avoided for years out of fear of the liver function test. I anxiously await results now and I'm prepared for whatever I find out because I know that at last I am treating my body with all due respect.

[Ken1]

Beth, thanks for the support and I know what you mean. I was walking my dog at 6:30 this morning and making a list in my head of all the things I have to do today. I am so much more productive now and I would now have to eliminate something from my schedule in order to make time to start drinking again.

I am listening to a Tony Robbins program and yesterday he was discussing changing bad habits. He made a key point in saying that you can't just use discipline to break a habit; you can but it wont last. You can't leave a vacuum, you have to replace the activity you eliminate with something positive, anything else. He gave examples of exercising, volunteering, learning a new language or a musical instrument. I had already done that by accident, I just knew that free time made my mind race and there was one sure way to quiet it down that caused all kinds of carnage in my life, so I better find something to do. Now I don't have time to all the things I want to in a day and go to bed exhausted, but excited about tomorrow and all I have to get done. By the way, now I "get to do things" as opposed to "have to!" That's a big deal for me.

Noel, thank you for your support. I can relate to being a people pleaser too, I am working on letting it go. Learning to say "No" without giving a five minute explanation why was my first step. I would then usually feel so bad that I would do what the other person wanted me to do anyway. At first, it is as hard as quitting drinking, you will get some shocked responses from all the people that are accustomed to you being a door mat or as I used to describe myself, human punching bag. They will get over it and find someone else to manipulate, and they were probably not a friend anyway. Political correctness is so exhausting and silly to me sometimes, but I try my best to not be offensive to anyone.

As to the forum, this is a safe place for all of us here to get things off of our chests that we dare not discuss with family, friends, or co-workers. This place is very important to me and I understand people's sensitivity towards it, I only slept about 3 hours the last two nights worrying about this thread. My mind was filled with, maybe I should have worded it differently and maybe I should never post in it or on and on and on. I finally listened to the messages telling me that it's something that people can benefit from and was able to get some peace about it.

Sue, I hate those work social events. They are never technically required attendance but you are definitely looked down on if you do not attend. I was supposed to go to bowling last night, but I just couldn't force myself to go. It is completely predictable that the same people are going to get hammered and then you feel awkward for not going along to get along. Good for you for planting the seed that you are not on the party wagon anymore, rather the sober train! I know your liver test is going to come back fine. I had one the first time I quit drinking and they said everything looked great, they almost sounded disappointed that they couldn't find anything wrong! She did ask me if I had any anxiety, to which I answered no, and she still gave me samples of Lexapro, which I threw in the trash can in the front of her office.

Thanks again to all that encouraged me to keep this thread open, I think it can be a real benefit to all.

[Sally]

Ken1 -

If I may add my two cents....I understand completely where you were coming from when you created this thread. Reading the main thread at times got me very depressed as well. That is why I quit reading for awhile and quit posting - I needed to focus on me and my sobriety. Also reading some of the posts was just too reflective for me (know what I mean?) and it was having the opposite affect that I was looking for - not helping, but kind of pulling me down (does that make sense?).

I do not mean to be disrespectful to all those who post there (been there done that) and I am with them 100% because I do know what they are going through. I am just at a different level in my sobriety right now. I may not have months strung together, but this past year has been a very, very sober one for me considering where I used to be.

I think we reach a point in our sobriety where we need something different, something that addresses where we are now in our journey – not the continual starts and stops but more of a I am living sober now what....and to me there is room on this site for all venues. That is why Samantha created the “30, 60, 90 Now What” thread. It gave people a chance to address some of those needs. I see your thread as a kind of in between the main thread and the 60, 90.

I have had a wonderful year, but unfortunately I cannot claim many months or years right now and it tends to get me down, yet I am still plugging away, learning about myself and moving forward. I think this thread is a great idea. I feel weird posting on the main thread about my issues because my head is in a different place now (though I still like to log on and give encouragement to those struggling) - and also because I feel like I have been there done that. And at times I feel foolish posting on the 60,90 (which I know is silly), because I don't have the months strung together as others do. I even contemplated not posting at all until I had 6 months in a row.

Anyway, I miss not posting, I miss not giving input and getting it in return. I am past the counting day stage and into the living sober – one day at a time. So thank you for this forum. I think it is a great idea.

[serenty]

Thank you for the great insight. I overthink too!

[ToddE]

It's been a few days since I've checked in on SR forum pages. I've been reading the main site articles, attending online peer support meetings, and started a daily writing project, as far as other recovery process stuff goes.

Interesting dialog here on this thread. To me open dialog is always a good thing. We can learn from each other or we can even learn from ourselves sometimes. I think when we give advice or offer a suggestion, we are often speaking to ourselves as much as we are to anyone else. I haven't done it yet, but I think it would be interesting to read all my own back posts. I will do it at some point, but the time doesn't feel right to me just yet.

I get Ken's point of being uncomfortable at times when trying to concentrate on your own recovery issues. I don't find the same situation as being an issue, but we're all in different places and I can certainly understand it. To me it's no different really, than if someone doesn't feel like going to parties where alcohol will be served. That sort of thing doesn't bother me much either, but again I can certainly understand how it could be uncomfortable for a lot of people.

One thing that does bother me, is at peer support group meetings, when someone starts bashing on another method of recovery. To me all paths are good. Whatever works for you is great, even if it doesn't happen to work for me.

It makes sense to me in recovery to avoid situations where you reasonably can, that cause you stress, makes you uncomfortable or that are triggers for you. Long term, I also think it's best on increasing your comfort zone and dealing with stress in healthy ways. Yes, that is advice I am pretty much giving to myself. It it happens to suit anyone else, your welcome to share it. lol.

Take care everyone,

-Todd

[Midwest Sue]

I just heard about a new movie (Seeking a Friend for the End of the World) with the premise that a huge meteor is on course to destroy the earth in 21 days.

It's good food for thought: what would I do? About drinking in particular, would I start again if I knew there was no future? Or would I prefer to squeeze the most out of each remaining moment in the full clarity of now?

What would you do??

[Ken1]

Sue, your apparently simple question caused me to think all day about drinking and life. My knee jerk reaction was no, I would not drink. Then, I thought about it all day and the thing that kept coming up was the saying about living every day as if it were your last. It made me think of all the things I let drift out of my life that I used to love to do as drinking took more and more control. I am now working on a list of all the things I planned on doing before my AV took control, now that I am back in the drivers seat. It's a combination of a bucket list plus all the things I was formerly passionate about. The first thing that came to mind was to get to a beach now! I want to go fishing again and swim and ski and learn a new language and on and on, my mind is racing but this time in a good way. I think I'll spend the weekend contemplating my future and really living for a change instead of just existing, which is all you can call life while drinking, existing. Thanks for the push!

[Beth]

Drink if it was the end? Every fiber of me wants to say Yes, Yes, drink get drunk....ok so maybe I'm not as mature as I think I am;) but I know I wouldn't (with every fiber of me). Your question made me think of my father. I've mentioned him here before.... Twenty plus years sober and was diagnosed with terminal lung cancer. They gave him a month to live.
One day he told me he wanted to get on a motorcycle with a fifth of jack and ride across the united states to the ocean. I said " Do it!" and I meant it. Who the hell cares about your sobriety, I thought, your dying go party till the end.
But he didn't. He died sober. Yesterday this hit me hard. As I thought about what my sobriety means to me, I thought about what it meant to my dad......he fought hard to get sober and stay sober....probably hardest thing he ever did....but more than that, his sobriety is his legacy to his kids. We saw him at his worse, a violent drunk that was completely out of control, that should have died a lot younger than he did. I believe he had post traumatic stress disorder from his days in Vietnam and that contributed to using alcohol as a coping mechanism. But faced with death, he didn't cave, he stayed the course for his kids (me especially I think). Not until now did I see this small lesson from the man I cherished my whole life. The things we do for our kids, no matter how small to them at the time, can and will be great gifts even after we are gone.

[carol]

I read a blurb the other day that said that being grateful actually turns off the part of the brain that worries. May or may not be true but I like it. I think gratitude is one of the things that helps keep me sober. I try to write down something each day that I'm grateful for. And I'm so grateful to Patrick and the folks here for helping me break free.

[Midwest Sue]

ww43,
I cannot imagine how difficult it must have been to be in that social setting for 5 full days and nights! Last week I had to endure just 2 hours of the same thing (room full of strangers, expectation that we'd all get comfortable by drinking together, no other real reason to be there) and it was the most challenging situation I've faced. I don't know if this will ever get easier. I think the key is to have at least one other trusted/familiar person present if you're obligated to be immersed in a drinking scenario.

If the end of the world or the end of my life were imminent, I would want to be with my loved ones. Because of that, I would not drink. I am so much better for them and with them when I'm sober.

Now, if I were the last person on earth..... ok - maybe I'd have to get bombed! I'm not a saint!

[Ken1]

I saw this quote recently: "Vulnerability is our most accurate measurement of courage.” (Brené Brown) and wasn't sure what it meant.

Go to Google and type in "Vulnerability as a strength." You'll be amazed how many solid articles there are on the topic.

Turns out that vulnerability is what allows us to expand and grow. Without vulnerability, there is no hope. Every time we experience hope, we are accepting vulnerability. When we aren't vulnerable - when we're truly impervious to pain - nothing can change. We are inflexible. Our guard is raised and ready to defend our way of thinking. When we feel vulnerable - and really embody it - our brain allows us to be open to change and that's what hope is to me. Hope is embracing change.

Here's what I learned: The key to happiness is replacing judgment with gratitude. If you will find gratitude for your vulnerability, something good happens. It's like it opens up the floodgates of possibility. So I'm no longer hiding from vulnerability. I'm embracing it.

I've also been mulling over the notion of responsibility, which ties into vulnerability. If there is a problem in your life, you have to deal with it, no one else is going to come along and solve it, and no one is going to care as much as you do about resolving it. Taking responsibility for your life of course makes you vulnerable to failure and disappointment, but responsibility and vulnerability are so much more empowering than the alternatives are; passivity and accepting whatever heads your way. It's the decision to sit behind the wheel and operate the vehicle as opposed to sitting in the back seat as it flies driver-less down a hill.

ww43, thanks for your support and glad to see you here. It's funny, my struggles come from within now and not from outside. If people are drinking around me, I find it annoying. When I know I'm going somewhere where everyone is going to be drinking, I think back on all the wasted years I spent chasing happiness through a buzz and it just makes me cringe. When I get forced into a conversation with someone that's been drinking, telling the same story twice, slurring their words with that slack look on their face, I imagine looking in a mirror and feel sorry for them. I used to get jealous, now I just want to get away from them.

When I'm home alone and bored, my AV starts creeping in, trying to convince me to lighten up and have one, you know you deserve it and who will know? That's when I have to fall back on everything I've learned and remind myself that it is just not worth it. I am not and never will be able to drink in moderation and will probably always fight a mild pull to just have "one". One drink will lead to total relapse for me, so I have to employ the zero tolerance policy.

I'm going to head off to my day now with a heart filled with gratitude.

[Midwest Sue]

I love this post, Ken. Great food for thought as usual.

[kevin2]

Turns out that vulnerability is what allows us to expand and grow. Without vulnerability, there is no hope. Every time we experience hope, we are accepting vulnerability. When we aren't vulnerable - when we're truly impervious to pain - nothing can change. We are inflexible. Our guard is raised and ready to defend our way of thinking. When we feel vulnerable - and really embody it - our brain allows us to be open to change and that's what hope is to me. Hope is embracing change.

Here's what I learned: The key to happiness is replacing judgment with gratitude. If you will find gratitude for your vulnerability, something good happens. It's like it opens up the floodgates of possibility. So I'm no longer hiding from vulnerability. I embracing it.

I've also been mulling over the notion of responsibility, which ties into vulnerability. If there is a problem in your life, you have to deal with it, no one else is going to come along and solve it, and no one is going to care as much as you do about resolving it. Taking responsibility for your life of course makes you vulnerable to failure and disappointment, but responsibility and vulnerability are so much more empowering than the alternatives are; passivity and accepting whatever heads your way. It's the decision to sit behind the wheel and operate the vehicle as opposed to sitting in the back seat as it flies driver-less down a hill.

Awesome thoughts Ken,..that's actually one of the smartest, most well thought out things I've ever read.

[Ken1]

I was talking with a friend of mine recently who is going through an extremely challeging part of her life and she said something that I've been thinking about since. She said "What's the point?", meaning what's the point of life if it is going to be so difficult. Don't worry, she's been able to get past that and is in a much more positive place, but it reminded me that I've been considering similar questions that people have been contemplating for thousands of years. Questions like, why am I here, what's the meaning of life, as well as what's the point.

No one knows the answer to these questions for sure, but here's what I think; the reason you're here is to figure out what makes you happy, your unique talent that God gave you, that you were born with, and share it with the world! You'll never be happy doing something you hate and why would you? You might be great at something you hate, something someone told you were supposed to do when you were young and you, like a good soldier, went along with someone else's plan for your life. You may have forgotten long ago what even makes you happy, but it's easy to find out what you love. It's as simple a making a list of all the things you would do for free if you had just won the lottery. Maybe you love animals or you're into health or music or cars or "you fill in the blank here."

Choice not chance determines your happiness. You can't wait for success, you have to go out into the world and pursue it on purpose, no one is going to hand you the prize. The point is the choice is yours, only you know the true desires of your heart. Once you figure out what you love, it is your duty to yourself and the rest of the world to pursue it immediately with wreckless abandon. Shake off the critics, any damn fool can criticize, but only the brave will chase their dreams. So in the end, live life full up, don't get to the end of your life with your dreams unfulfilled, don't die with your music still in you. When you get to the end of your life, you want to be able to say, "yeah, that's exactly how I wanted to do it!" That's the point of life as I see it: to find happiness, fulfillment, and contintment while giving back to others and not hurting anyone.

I believe that if you do what you love the money will come, to an extent. If you love watching TV, you better hope your parents have a nice basement. I'm talking about fiding something you love that contributes something to the world. It can be something as simple as cleaning, it helps to make the world a more beautiful place. It can be something like working on cars, helping people get to work and home safely. It could be something cool like being a rock star. For me, I LOVE fixing up old houses. I appreciate the craftsmanship and the time that went into homes built 50 to 100 years ago. I also love dogs and enjoy contributing money to the humane society. I love nutrion and alternative health. I would be happy to work in any of those fields for a living but am curretnly in the real estate arena because my father was a contractor and I have a sense of connection to my parents there. I feel my father's memory over my shoulder when I'm working with tools and remember my mother's advice when negotiating a deal (she and my father were also business partners). Those things may sound awuful to you, but when I'm doing demo work my face hurts from smiling so much. It's my wish that you find whatever makes you happy and start doing it. Start part time, DO NOT QUIT YOUR JOB until you are sure, then dive in head first!

If you don't love your life, that's the signal that something's wrong and that you need to make a change. Break the cycle of just existing. Make time for yourself. Find out what you're passionate about and take Massive Action (thanks Patrick). Start small so you can test the waters first. Don't let fear of the unknown keep you from living your dreams. Have faith and give it your all, you might just be suprised at what you are capable of and you will never know until you try. Remember you have an expiration date, so get started chasing your dreams today. God bless and God's speed!

[Eric]

Ken,

Great posts. To me, I like to replace the word vulnerability with openess. I am open to personal repsonsiblity, I am open to people, I am open to ideas, and I am open to love. It is how I respond that makes the difference. I can be burned on any one of these things, but if I am open then I can also experience the good from them too. If I am closed, then I cannot. I think it is basically the same idea but with different words.

One other thing: one of the nestest things I read is: "What is the purpose of life?" "To ask that question."

[Ken1]

I am working on something that I just realized as a fault, and that is having an all or nothing mentality. For some reason, I tend to think of everything as permanent, either black or white. I recently changed careers, and the hold up was thinking that if I changed and didn't like it, I was in trouble because I assumed I would be stuck doing it the rest of my life. This attitude has kept me from doing many things in my life, from quitting drinking to moving to a new city to just trying new things. It sounds crazy when I put it in writing and liberating as well. For instance if I move to the beach and don't like it, I can always move back to where I live now. The same with my career and dating and every new thing I want to try. When pilots are flying a plane, they constantly make course corrections, and that is what I'm now doing in my life. I think the key is to be clear about what you want and why you want it, then develop a massive plan of action second. The why is more important than the how, you have to realize that complacency/the comfort zone is the killer of dreams and associate pain with not changing and pleasure with achieving the life always envisioned for yourself. The how can be tweaked as necessary.

Drinking had been my universe and kept me in a mediocre existence, just going through the motions and not really enjoying anything. With the new found energy sobriety has so generously extended to me, I realize how boring my old life had been. Get up, go to work, go home, get drunk, pass out repeat until the weekend. On the weekend get up, do yard work, get drunk, pass out. Pretty lame. Now I feel like it is my responsibility to live life full up, to make the most of the time I have left because we never know how long that is. I at least have a better shot at living a longer life now that I'm not drowning myself daily with a toxic liquid. I still envy people that never think about alcohol and then I realize that I am becoming one of them! I'm also chasing old dreams that I thought had withered on the vine long ago. I find that they are still very much alive and were just waiting for me to get back in the race. Thanks to you all and to SR for giving me a place to feel normal!

[Midwest Sue]

Ken, I can really relate to your post. I'm feeling the need to do something to break out of my mediocre existence now that I'm "awake at the wheel". There are so many goals and dreams that I put on hold for years, and I don't know where to begin to start turning those things into reality. As you said, you can always change course. Making a change does not mean you're locked in to that decision. (Except for the decision to not drink. That change is non-negotiable.)

I've stopped writing in a journal, but I think it's time to pick that up again and make some lists, and then Just Do It, one change at a time.

[carol]

I've been thinking a lot about the time I spend here, even after a year of freedom. I still check in several times a day, even if I don't post as often. Why? Why do I still need this forum?

My she-devil is still in hibernation, and those whispers or yells at me to drink don't come anymore, which is wonderful. But I still often have a track going on in my head that talks about not drinking. Example is from my post on another thread of passing by an airport bar and remembering when I drank there and how much. Or I find myself mentally posting a lot about not drinking, or thinking about people on the forum, etc. Then I thought about how much mental energy I spent on planning my drinking, like has been talked about elsewhere, and energy on coping with the effects and still being high functioning, for so many years. So is it any surprise that I need to spend some energy on the opposite?

I'm noticing that there are a lot of things I do now and thinking of drinking or thinking of not drinking just doesn't happen. The witching hour comes and goes without noticing. I can go to the grocery store at any time of the day or night without thinking of booze or being tempted or even noticing that they sell booze. I can go to a restaurant and not think about ordering a drink or instantly remembering what I drank there. But when I go someplace associated with drinking that I haven't been to much since I stopped, I notice and remember. For awhile when I went someplace I'd feel a little emotional twang, now it's more just noticing. Like it's not all the way out of my system yet, like I'm still processing it. (Although when I picked up that bottle of vodka when I was shopping for our family reunion there wasn't only a twang there was a big-time alarm. Long story short I went back later, bought a different brand than I drank, had a great time, and didn't drink.)

I read an article about a woman almost killed by a shark bite that used a screen saver picture of a shark to help desensitize her (along with a lot of other stuff to recover physically and mentally of course). It strikes me that that's part of what is going on. I'm desensitizing myself to alcohol-related memories, triggers, etc. And that made me remember a post from a long time ago that I didn't go back to try to find when I could literally feel myself retraining my brain from old learned responses to new paths of thinking and freedom. I think I'm still in that process of retraining. And that feels kind of good, actually.

This is the thread where I really get to indulge my thinking (over-thinking?) side, so thanks again Ken for creating it. And for those who've read this long, thanks for all your help!

[Midwest Sue]

Carol, I am glad that you're still checking in here, thinking and posting about sobriety and the life you left behind. Your presence is inspiring and comforting to many.

I think the awareness of "how it was" vs. "how it is now" will always be there. Acknowledging that the she-devil is not dead but hibernating is important, too, and keeps you active in maintaining your freedom.

As a caring person, your energy is now being spent giving encouragement to others, which is so different from the energy you spent giving the she-devil what she demanded!

Thanks so much for being here!

[Ken1]

Carol, I second what Sue said and would add that I think this is something we will probably always deal with in some way for the rest of our lives. Although it happens less frequently now, we will probably have to deal with triggers that hit us from out of the blue, unexpectedly but undoubtedly connected somehow to our past. I'm glad you are not experiencing any, but you have to be on guard for them. Mine came after four years of sobriety and I fell for it hook line and sinker.

As for over thinking, no way! I think SR is a great place to express what you have on your mind and to share your knowledge with everyone. The only way to over think is to think but not take action, the old paralysis by analysis dilemma where you get yourself tied in knots over which way to go and get stuck. But that's not your style, you are decisive!

[Millie]

Carol,
I am glad that you and many others with significant time under your belt are still checking in. It provides continuity, comfort, and inspiration. Way back when you started posting, I recall how you "saw yourself" in other folks stories and couldn't sugarcoat it like you could your "own" story. I have seen myself in your descriptions..descriptions of drinking until the well ran dry or closed down, drinking even more after that if you could get your hands on it. That has always been my problem. I used to describe it as I was missing the "shut down button" that generally would tell Normal folks it was time to slow down or stop and switch to water or soda or better yet, go home and go to bed... I don't have such a button. Once i start drinking, and have a certain amount..three glasses or so, I start drinking more and more and faster and faster, usually only stopping when alcohol is gone or i finally pass out.

Not drinking is usually not too much of a struggle. I don't have the cravings others have described on here. My issue has always been that I may not be able to stop once i start. Sometimes i can drink just a few and be fine, but i can never tell in advance whether i will be able to control my drinking or not.

I am still having a tough time wrapping my head around the idea of never drinking again..... I am not sure i can commit to that, but i am happy to not be drinking right now.

I am very impressed that you have not had a drink in over a year. It is just so hard to imagine. Alcohol has been a nemesis, but it has also been in the mix of some great memories, too. It is just so hard to imagine giving it up forever. Reading on how folks are doing with long term sobriety helps.

Please continue to stick around! This plea is for all of the other successful old timers on here, too.

[Tere]

Millie, it sounds like you may be allergic to alcohol. An allergic reaction usually is triggered by alcohol entering into our system, then our brain takes over to over to try to adjust. It sounds crazy (that is what I first thought) but it makes sense. I tend to drink like you. My drinking episodes are different everytime. One thing is for sure, I never have the control to quit until I am puking, belligerent, downright intoxicated.

[Millie]

Tere, the allergic reaction concept is interesting. Even more reason to stay away from it. :). I am definitely enjoying the freedom from it right now. Life is good.

[Tere]

I know, I couldn't agree more:)

[serenty]

thanks for giving us newbies hope KirstenBrock Any special advice?

[Eric]

I hope this threads continues with the experienced and successful voices on this thread. I like to read these to learn what to expect and how to grow into a sober life. I will continue to limit my posts to the main thread, but it is nice to read how the sober folks live and what they deal with.

[Beth]

Hi All,

I too like this thread as well as the 60, 90. They both add so much.
Today I was just watching the news about Randy Travis' latest drunken episode. Wow is all I can say.....talk about not knowing when you hit rock bottom. All of us can relate to him whether we have been there yet or not because that could be any of us if we drink today.

My heart goes out to him and everyone else that can't break the chains of addiction. It makes me weep as well as pray that we all can overcome our egos and keep surrendering to our higher power that can set us free from our fears to find true joy and happiness.

Take Care All!

[Ken1]

Here is what goes through my mind constantly, life is so short and fragile, don't waste one more second of it. When I drink, I waste that day and probably the next. It was fun when I was 20, but I blinked and was suddenly in my 40's and wonder what might have been if only I could have figured out that I was throwing away so much by being an alcoholic and work-a-holic. What a tragedy it is to keep trying to drink in moderation and miss out on really living your one and only life. You don't get any do-overs (I don't think?), so stop doing self destructive things to yourself. Start being selfish, in a good way, and live the life only you can. No one else will ever care as much as you do about your life and no one else can do anything to change it except for you. I'm quitting a job I hate tomorrow and feel like I'm about to put down a 200 pound weight I've been carrying around. I have no idea what is next, but life is too short to be miserable. The same thing goes for drinking, put it down and don't worry about what comes next, whatever the alternative is has got to be better than the misery that drinking is!

For me the answer is anger. I finally had to get so mad at MYSELF that I knew that there was only one solution. You may be familiar with the burn the boats story, Andy Andrews tells it much better than I can here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlNngcDNFS0 Basically, as the legend goes, Hernando Cortez, in attempting to conquer the Aztecs, ordered the men in his command to burn the boats they used to sail ashore, which eliminated the option of retreat. I was so tired of beating my head against the wall, of not living up to my potential, of wasting year after year HOPING things would get better and change. I had to get to the point of no more excuses, no more lies (to myself), of being so miserable that I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was time to quit or get my will up to date because at the pace I was drinking I was on a race to the end so I had to burn my boat. I believe that you can declare any point you want to as your rock bottom, you don't have to go to jail or get divorced or some other horrible event happen to declare that you are sick and tired of living half a life. So many others in the posts above have put it so well, just existing, not enjoying life any more, just going through the motions until it is time to drink again is an awful way to live and such a waste. I had all I could take of living that way, FINALLY!

My honest assessment is that if people are still drinking, they still BELIEVE they are getting something out of it and have refused to be honest with themselves. They have refused to admit that they still get some pleasure out of it, even if only imagined. They still hang on to the belief that they can control the beast. I have read that at our most basic, we are all motivated by the desire to seek pleasure and to avoid pain. Therefore if someone is still drinking, they still think it brings something to the table. Maybe it is the belief that I had that said that once I had a drink, magically everything would be rainbows and puppy dogs and ice cream for everyone, but what it turned out to be, especially at the end, was about as much fun as hitting yourself in the head with a claw hammer. Pain, loneliness, unnecessary misery, the pain we caused to all those that tried to love and support us, the (you fill in your own blank here), all prolonged because of the lie we told ourselves about alcohol.

You and I know that left alone, weeds will grow instead of what you desire, so you have to take charge, plant the seeds of change, and continually cultivate them or the weeds will grow. You have to keep yourself motivated all the time, over and over. Motivation is like taking a shower, it doesn't last so you have to repeat the process as often as needed! SR is my crutch, where I lean when I need some support or strength. I love to read about people celebrating milestones, whether it be day 2 or 30 days, it gets me pumped, like the theme music to Rocky 1 is playing in my head while I'm reading here. Those small victories mean the world to me as I genuinely enjoy people being happy. Ever watch The Price Is Right? Strangely, I will find myself cheering for complete strangers to win prizes, the same concept applies here for me. SR is like my second family and I cheer for everyone that posts.

The turning point for me, as Beth reminded me the other day in a post, was finally getting on my knees and begging for help. Admitting that I absolutely was powerless in my own strength and asked God to please help me. I know God can be a touchy subject here, which makes me scratch my head, but I can honestly say that without His help I would probably be 6 feet under by now. Sue and Sally said it in another thread, gratitude and making yourself a priority, perhaps for the first time ever. Have a great day everyone.

Hi Eric and Beth, good to hear from you!

[Ken1]

Kimber, I have been following your journey since you came back and want to tell you I'm impressed and happy for your great strides, you sound like a different person than the former one that used to post (in the best way possible). I'm glad anything I had to say was of some help to you. Come on down! You're right, we do all win by not drinking! I did quit my job today and feel awesome! I am going to make some important decisions about other things now. What was holding me up was thinking in an all or nothing manner. What I mean is thinking that making a decision to change careers is permanent, but it is not! If I make a decision that doesn't work out, it is a sign of maturity to admit your mistake and move on, not to suffer in silence like a good little solider, because that's what everyone expects you to do. It's my life and my choice, I'll run my own race thank you very much. So onward and upward it is to the next chapter in my life. Can you relate?

[Ken1]

I thought there was a thread to post books, but apparently I am mistaken. I want to share with you a couple of books that I'm reading that I think are worth looking into. I watched a program on PBS by Dr Joel Fuhrman this past weekend all about based on his book titled "Eat To Live." He has a website that shares most of the information in the program: http://www.drfuhrman.com/

In reading and researching this book, I found another one titled "The Pleasure Trap". Here is a lecture by one of the authors: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nxf4kj8Rb6Y It covers WHY we are addicted to food, alcohol, etc., and how to reset our systems to beat these addictions! Please check these out.

[Beth]

Hi Ken,

Hope all is well!
The book thread is under water cooler called The Library.

It is so funny you saw Joel, I saw him on Dr. Oz a few weeks back and have getting his book from the library on my list of things to do. I like his approach to diet, G-BOMBS, which is what I need! a healthy approach to eating.

I heard a saying over the weekend.....Your six pack starts in the kitchen! And no, NOT beer, but the way you eat. Now that the kids are back on school I need to focus on my nutrition.

[Ken1]

In an attempt to get more flexible, I have been researching yoga moves. In the process, I found this awesome answer to a question I had to share with you all. The yoga instructor was asked this:

"How do you manage to stay so grounded in a busy urban environment like NYC?

Her answer: "Life isn't going to give you peace. You have to take it. You have to make your peace with your daily routine and create space for yourself. My first priority is my nourishment, and everyone has to fit in around that. A lot of people I see flip that. They always say yes, and do what everyone else needs first. Then they see where they fit in, and you'll never fit in that scenario. You've got to commit to do you every day."

I wrote this down on an index card and stuck it to my desk:

Life isn't going to give you peace. You have to take it.

Wow, why didn't I think of that!

[carol]

Life isn't going to give you peace, you have to take it. Wow, I like it! Peace seems like something that happens, maybe something you create, interesting idea that I have to reach out and take it.

The forum is really alive today, so many posts on so many threads, here & the water cooler. I love it!

[ToddE]

Uthaapa, Great for you & welcome aboard. I was at a Christmas party on Sunday. There was plenty of people drinking, but no one heavily. I tend to notice it less at all as time goes by. This time of year though, I think it is a lot more prevalent, even with people who normally don't drink much. Glad you enjoyed your sober time out.

[Midwest Sue]

Now that I have more than a year of sobriety behind me (still hard to believe!), I feel like it's time to dig deeper and develop myself in areas I've neglected.

2012 was my Year of Staying Sober, No Matter What. In order to do that, I went pretty easy on myself, allowing myself to substitute food (sugar) for booze, distracting myself with a few mindless pursuits (tv, iPhone games), sleeping in, etc. In general, I didn't discipline myself much in areas other than staying sober.

Those behaviors served their purpose, but now it's time to move on.

I see 2013 as a year of personal growth. I'm not distracted by Mabel, my evil AV. As Carol says about hers, she's in hibernation.

My mind feels clear and my body is clean. I've achieved an emotional equilibrium. It's too bad that this didn't happen before age 57, but I'm happy to be here now and I figure I've got a good 25-30 years left to enjoy.

So - I'm planning to get physically fit, enjoy the hell out of riding a new bicycle that I deserve, discover a hobby or two, plan trips, read a lot, help other people, make the most of my job/s, make new friends, and leave behind regrets of the past.

This sober life is SO WORTH IT!

P.S. Ken, you are missed! I hope you are well.

[ToddE]

Great post, Sue. Love that spirit. Try to guard against the overdoing it factor, so you don't burn out. Unless that's not an issue for you. I think everything you wrote, sounds wonderful. I am sure you will get to where you want.

... and yes Ken, where are you? Hope you're doing well and just wanted some space for a bit. Drop us a line if you're browsing.

[carol]

Hi everyone. I have a new granddaughter! She is home from the hospital, and I've flown in to the east coast to visit her and my daughter.

The analogy of a new life being created in the form of my granddaughter and the new life I've been creating for myself is obvious but still worth saying.

I'm less interested in comparing my life now to the way it used to be (e.g., the whole paragraph I could write about airports and airplanes and booze). I do know that I am more present, and more calm. Lovely

[Midwest Sue]

Wow - Congratulations, Carol!
I'm so happy that you get to experience this completely sober and aware. It must be amazing.

[_Erin_]

Ditto what Sue said, Carol! Congratulations!! :)

[ToddE]

Very nice, Carol. Living centered is great. Congratulations to you and your daughter.

[ToddE]

I did an online meeting the other day. It'd been a week or two since the last one. I was doing a bunch of them, leading up to Christmas. Not that I was concerned with drinking, but the holidays were still kind of a mental block for me, and it's just like insurance. No harm if you don't end up needing it, but good to have if you do. Anyway I am pretty sure I'll taper back on them again now that the holidays are fading into memory. My posting here is down as well, for pretty much the same reason.

Anyway at the online meeting, the meeting host private messaged me to ask if I had ever though about hosting a meeting. I have, but I don't type too fast and that's a disadvantage, if your setting the flow of a meeting. I had thought more of doing a face to face meeting. I would want to find someone to co-host for that though. With my work I really can't guarantee to be available. There were a couple people I think would be interested, but neither live close and that can get to be a drain. If I do it that way, I really want it near my house. It's OK to travel a bit, get home late now and then, but I don't want to do it every week.

So I am thinking I probably will do the online meeting hosting thing. If I am out of town, that's not really too much of an issue. You can get on the internet pretty much anywhere these days. I'm sure I will learn to handle the flow, with my typing ability. I can type fine, just have a bit of arthritis and tend to go a bit slow. Part of it is I re-read a lot, too though. I write technical papers at work and am just in the habit. Like anything though, I can learn to do it different, if I want to.

I really think the idea of having a project or several potential projects going is an important part of more the long term recovery. At least for me it is. I don't necessarily even need to have something like this, which is still involved with recovery. If this hadn't been offered, I may have just drifted away from that group. I mean like posting here, if there I want I can come back. If I am getting along fine, then other than checking back in, that seems OK too. I would have found a project to keep my focus though. Last year when I was really into baking I had no sobriety issues. When I got tired of it as a main focus, I didn't replace it. Looking back I think that was my biggest issue that lead to relapse.

That's all I have for now.

Take care, Todd

[Millie]

If you decide to do it, let me know. IF you are hosting, I may be inspired to check it out.

[Ken1]

Tim McGraw was on the Tonight Show this past Wednesday and spoke top Jay about his sobriety. In case you missed it, here is a short article that you may find helpful. Hope everyone is doing well and I'm praying for you all.

Tim McGraw: Still Sober and Proud of It

Tim McGraw discussed his decision to quit drinking during an appearance Wednesday on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno that also included a performance of “One of Those Nights” from his new album Two Lanes of Freedom .

Tim said this May will mark his fifth anniversary of being sober.

He told Jay he decided to quit drinking because it got to a point where he thought “it was disruptive” to his life.

Tim admitted that he still feels like he misses the drinking sometimes, but he believes he’s much better now without it.

As for how he manages to stay on the wagon, Tim told Jay, “You just have to stay focused and routines are good for me. I like routines, but I think ultimately, you have to make the decision that you want to get more out of life.”

Tim says there wasn’t one incident in particular that made him stop, “there was probably twenty-something years of incidents” and he finally got to the breaking point.

Tim told Jay he decided to learn how to text because his wife, Faith Hill , could tell when he was drinking when he called her on the phone. Tim joked that when he “started slurring my text it was time to quit drinking.”

Copyright 2013 ABC News Radio

[Midwest Sue]

Ken - It's so good to see you here! Thank you for posting this! You've been missed.
Sue

[Millie]

Ken,
Great to see you on here. He was on the cover of People Magazine recently and article was similar to what you quoted above..
He looks fabulous.. It sounds like he has replaced his "drinking" with a healthy addiction to exercise... I am still working on developing a healthy addiction to exercise, but it hasn't quite taken ahold yet. LOL.
I hope we hear from you more..

[Beth]

I read the People article at the suggestion of Millie.....(Ummm, Yummm!). He is such an inspiration! I didn't even know he was sober and to think 5 years! Wow that shows that alcohol truly doesn't define us. I saw him two years ago in concert and he was as good as he ever was. Can't wait to see him again this year.

Ken, Glad to see you still checking in, you are always missed.

[Ken1]

Sue, Kimber, Millie, and Beth: I missed you all as well! Happy new year, I hope you all are doing great. I have been reading but had not felt inclined to post lately until the other day when I saw Tim McGraw talking about celebrating 5 years sober. For some reason it, just rang as something worth sharing. I'm not typically a big fan of what celebrities say or think, but what he said was so down to earth that it reinforced exactly what I believe. He said something to the effect that it wasn't one incident but rather 20 years of them that made him realize it was time to quit. With spring and nice weather coming, it's a great time to focus on working out and our health like he did. It is great to have a goal and a mentor that has done it, he put a real face on it for me and I am going to start running twice a day starting today. I threw out all my junk food and am giving it up for Lent. I hope you all have a beautiful day and I look forward to talking to you all soon.

[Ken1]

Celebrated my birthday yesterday and was so glad I spent it sober. It hasn't been easy lately but I know drinking only compounds problems. I think I'm feeling down because of the weather, I'm so sick of the cold and rain, until last week it had been a mix of ice and snow and cold rain. Also trying to decide on a career change has been stressful, makes me question if things might be better if I had my old crutch. Although I clearly know the answer to that question, I think I've reached a point where I did a few years back when I thought I was "cured" enough to begin drinking moderately again. I clearly know that since I crashed and burned so badly then that I can't handle it, but nonetheless the thought comes.

I have decided to recommit to the things that got me sober, getting back into AA and spending more time on my knees asking God for His help and studying the Bible. I know that it was a Higher Power that gave me the strength to get sober and I just need to get myself back to that place of gratitude and humility to find that strength again.

I think it's like a garden that I have left unattended; leave it alone and weeds will grow and eventually take over. I have to spend time working in the garden that is my mind, controlling the weeds and intentionally planting the right seeds that will yield the fruit I want for my life. I have to have a plan, goals that I shoot for that keep me positive and limit the self doubt that creeps in if left alone. I have to weed out negative thinking and remember how far I have come.

One change I made was cleaning my diet up starting today. I have been eating so poorly lately, blaming it on the cold weather, craving comfort food, anything that was rich and creamy and warm. You know, stick to ribs type of food. I woke up this morning and walked like I always do but today had a salad for breakfast, sounds weird but it really hit the spot! I gave up chips for Lent and it has been TOUGH. I never realized how many I ate until I threw them all away and started craving them. The cravings have almost gone away now, and I don't think I will keep them in the house any longer. I do look forward to having a big plate of nachos after Easter!

I watched two PBS specials this weekend, one by Dr. Joel Fuhrman and the other by Dr. Mark Hyman, both were about curing disease and losing weight by eating a mainly vegetarian diet. They each reviewed data that shows that diets high in sugar and white flour are causing cancer, heart disease, diabetes, etc. and that these things can be turned around by cleaning up your diet. Do you know the number one symptom of heart disease? Answer= sudden death! No warning, just collapse and that's the end. One great reason to eat better!

Another thing I found interesting was that researchers found that if they took people and put them on the same diet as people that had gastric bypass surgery, they lost the same amount of weight as the people that had the surgery! That means skip the dangerous surgery, just eat better and you'll lose all the weight you want. Although exercise is highly recommended, it was far less important than eating properly.

I'll wrap up my rant by saying thanks for listening; "keyboard therapy" as our friend Billy so aptly named it. It really is good for the soul to get it out in the open and admit things to not only yourself but to all of you, like being able to take a deep breath and let it go.

[hope]

Hi Ken

Like you, I need to spend more efforts at other aspects of my health - diet, exercise, spiritual, intellectual and emotional growth. When any one of these gets out of balance in my life everything feels out of whack. I have found that if I get so obsessed with just not drinking, then I am not focussing on the rest of these important things. I have found that anything by Matthew Kelly has been good for me - He has a few books and audio tapes - one of my favorities is "The Rhythm of Life" where he delves into how to be the best version of yourself.

[Midwest Sue]

Ken, Happy Birthday!
I'm glad that you're recommitting to working on staying sober. I like the garden analogy. The weeds will definitely take over if we don't put in the time and effort to keep the right things growing.

Thanks for the reminder.

[Millie]

Ken, love your post. Happy birthday to you. Stay strong!!

[Beth]

I'm really having a hard time with getting my body and mind right and getting sugar out of my system. On one of the blogs yesterday I read how alcoholics need to be careful about substituting one addiction for another. yes I have! It was an interesting article. One thing written was "Remember that you are on your side, you’re not the enemy!". I wanted to start today the Eat to Live program. I have read the book, listened to the Cd, and joined the website..... But only made about a half hearted attempt.....
I think it will be easy once I put my heart in it. It says that once you get through the first 10-13 days your golden.
I mention this here because it was interesting to read about what hunger really is........it says that all the "hunger pains" you think you are feeling are actually your addiction to pasta, bread, caffiene, soda, sugar, etc. Your body is so use to all the crap that you are programmed to believe you are hungry. Ugh, it made a lot of sense. I am so ready to get the bad stuff out of me.
Wish me luck.

[Christy]

Beth,
I've been doing the Eat to Live by Dr. Furhman. So far i have lost 30 pounds and i'm not starving. Eating a plant based diet is so beneficial for all the cravings and for your health. Trust me, after elimating the alcohol, I was eating ice cream nightly. I no longer crave it. I broke down a few days ago after 4 months and bought some ice cream. It wasn't like my body was craving it, but just thought i would "treat" myself. Not a big deal!

I now appreciate all the veggies and fruits that i didn't know that i even liked. Now that's what i really crave.

[Beth]

Wow Christy your weight loss is amazing but I can see how it's possible. The plan makes so much sense. I am sure it is easy once I can really understand it and just take the plunge. You are a great inspiration. Thank you.